Dace Priede studied at the Theatre Department of the Jāzeps Vītols Latvian State Conservatory and earned a degree in theatre and film acting. She worked as an actress at the Riga Operetta Theatre (1976–1983). She works as a director at the amateur theatre of the Kuldīga House of Culture. Since 1998 Dace has been a language consultant at Kurzeme Radio and a host of dedication concerts. In addition, Dace Priede has completed the evangelist courses of the consistory of the Latvian Evangelical Lutheran Church and, since 1997, has served as an evangelist in Kuldīga, Lipaiķi, Ēdole and Vārme, Kabile, and elsewhere, carrying out the duties of an evangelist and a pastor. This remarkable woman is also a member of the Writers’ Union and a laureate of the I. Zeberiņš prize. Recently Dace was awarded the Kuldīga Municipality Annual Prize in Literature. She has written eleven books, and her novels have been used in Latvian radio productions. Occasionally Dace publishes under the pseudonym Patrīcija Egle.
Dace, you are a many-faceted and interesting personality, and I am glad you have agreed to give an interview! In this interview I would like to talk about your calling as a woman.
Tell us a little about yourself: where were you born, where did you study? What captivated you in childhood? Which person encouraged you most in the course of your life to dare, not to give up, and to reach your goals?
I was born in Riga and there I have still spent the greater part of my life. In childhood, just as now, I was captivated by everything – handicrafts, theatre, dancing, painting and theatre, yes, and medicine. My closest person is and will be, across all time, my mother! Mum was my friend, my comrade in struggles and mischief. An endlessly wise woman, she knew 6 languages and loved literature…. I am far from her wisdom and her peace…
How did you decide to study theatre and film acting? Which is your favorite role that you have had to play?
Since theatre was already being played in childhood, I decided I had to keep playing. I have always wanted to be many things, but as an actress I can be anything I please.
A favorite role – probably there is none… perhaps… In the amateur theatre, Guna in “Sidraba šķidrauts” (“The Silver Veil”) (by Aspazija). When I write, I act out the roles of all my characters, perhaps that is why there is no favorite role (character); my favorite is the one happening right now.
Did you have a “film or theatre idol”?
Yes, among Latvians, Elza Radziņa. The way she declaimed folk songs – no one could do it like that, no one taught it like that!
May we know who your favorite director is?
Felikss Deičs (among my teachers). Among the world-famous – Peter Jackson.
Now about your many talents and works. How have you managed to combine them all in one person? I don’t know. God loves me and lets me do everything I like, and on top of that He has arranged it all so that I can make a living from it! In my view it is a very fortunate combination, that work is a hobby and a hobby is work.
Some time ago you were in North America to study the life of the indigenous people of America – the Native Americans. Tell us about it: why the Native Americans in particular, how did the research go, and were there any interesting, surprising conclusions?
This will be VERY long. When I travel with my books to meet readers, I also tell about my journey to the Native American reservation, but I leave it for the very end, in case people still have the strength to listen.
Why the Native Americans – that comes from my childhood and a strange awareness that we are not free: 1) it was given by films about Native Americans and their struggles for freedom. The Native Americans gave me this inner fighting spirit, the will to fight for freedom (freedom is not the license to do anything); 2) the life insights, ornaments (patterns), and even the native Latvian understanding of God of our peoples (Latvians and the Sioux [people]) are endlessly close, if not identical (these thoughts of mine are also confirmed by the wise Austris Grasis); 3) they experienced the same kind of deportation and occupation as we did; 4) there are few of them and they hold on solely to the foundations of their history and culture; 5) once, for 3 days, I knew a half-blood Native American boy (more about that – in my books).
My most astonishing discovery – that I can do it!, that I was able to cross half the world and reach the reservation (alone), that I was able to make myself understood in a language (English) that I had studied for only a year and in which I had no prior knowledge, that one can travel to America with 20 dollars in one’s pocket and then cross another 3,000 km, that I was accepted by people of all skin colors, and no one held me back or hindered me – yes, they asked what I was looking for there, but they did not hold me back. Even now I feel a special surge of strength when I talk about the journey. I received more than I expected! Thank God!
I would like to keep telling more, but I am afraid of losing my way…
After this journey your books “Mēnesstars pār jūru” (“Moonbeam over the Sea”) and “Mēnesstars pār ezeru” (“Moonbeam over the Lake”) came into being. Do you describe in them this unique adventure of yours with the Native Americans?
Yes. There is also the concluding part of the trilogy, “Mēnesstars debesīs” (“Moonbeam in the Sky”) (when there are funds – we will publish it). I wrote “Moonbeam over the Sea” long BEFORE I went to America. I would dearly love not only for Latvians to be enthralled by the Native Americans, but also to acquaint the Native Americans with Latvians and Latvian culture – but how I can do that… I still don’t know, but it is one of my greatest wishes!
You have written 11 books. Moreover, in one interview you said that you write with the blood of your own heart. Does that mean that you let everything pass through your own experience and feelings?
Yes. Can I write about something I do not understand? I also said that I would stop writing if the blood ran out. I either do it with my heart, or I don’t do it. Here too I must admit that I am God’s beloved child. I would not want to write about things I do not know, or at least have not stood beside.
How and when did you discover within yourself the ability to write? What would you advise the young women and women who would like to write?
It happened as if of its own accord. Already in my school days I wrote mercilessly long compositions. That is probably the dread of today’s teachers!
Advise? Write. Even if it turns out to be the ravings of a graphomaniac, it will let you develop your thoughts, the flight of imagination, your vocabulary, and your ability to express yourself. You can never know what will emerge from the “worm of doubt.” …
The protagonist of all your novels is a woman. Why a woman?
Because it is the only world, the feelings and thoughts, that I know. I can only roughly imagine what a man thinks and feels, but I cannot fully pass it “through myself,” because I am a woman. And we are made of an entirely different riddle than men (and that is neither good nor bad, it simply is).
What, in your view, is a woman’s calling in the world?
To be a bearer of peace, to love and to be loved, to be a Mother… In today’s world it is very hard to preserve femininity, because the world pushes one to compete, to contend, to win (which is part of manliness), and a woman, taking over a man’s functions, lets sons slacken and become un-manly. Unfortunately. Here some might say that the pastorate is a man’s domain. I agree. With one objection: if teachers and doctors were ALL (or for the most part) men, I would agree with the idea that pastors too should be men. As it is now – certainly not! I think that, ideally, both should serve! Not competing and not fighting for power, but serving… One can serve the family, one can serve the congregation, one can serve one’s own whims, and one can serve Mammon.
At the end of last year you presented your book on responsibility toward animals, “Mums vienas asinis Tev un man” (“We Share One Blood, You and I”). How did the presentation go, and what was the reaction to this book, which calls one to reflect on the fact that we humans are not alone? How did such a bold book title come about?
The presentations, however many there have been, are all VERY emotional! It makes no difference whether I go with a team or alone… After all, God created us together with the animals from the same substance and gave us life just as He did them; it is only God’s Spirit that makes us human, otherwise we are ONLY (what?) animals. Yes, God’s Spirit is in all people, yet not all hear it, understand it, and use it; some even fight against it. And one more thing – I believe that animals too have a heaven of their own, for when we were in Paradise we were united, so how could it be that THERE, in the hereafter, we would be alone and there would be no animals who have loved US, at times unto death?…. If in Paradise we WERE together, then we will be together now as well! And it seems to me that irresponsibility is the gravest illness of our century, like the plague… I very much hope that the book will make people reflect on responsibility.
Is there some book, some study, or some production that you are working on now?
Yes, at the moment I am working on three books – a book for children about Latvia and the love of one’s own land (and more); I very much hope to write a novel about the Suiti baron von Schwerin (the play already exists), and another book about a woman’s search for herself and her confession… (I would rather not say more).
In 1997 you were installed in the office of evangelist. What was the attitude of those around you? What was the attitude of the congregation members, did they accept you, support you? Was a woman evangelist something new, or were people used to seeing a woman serve?
The attitude? All kinds. There were those who said – where do you think you’re crawling, there were those who supported, encouraged; it has been all sorts of things. There are people who have considered my sermons and ministry SO valuable that they said I should put out an annual collection of sermons, and there have been those who would settle for a worse, weaker pastor as long as there was something in the trousers (sorry). I am no gentle creature and, possibly, some did not like my sermons, in which I spoke of very concrete, often painful things. I think that my task, as one carrying out the duties of a pastor, was – to make people think and reflect, not to give ready-made answers and clichés. I ended every one of my sermons with a question or questions.
Possibly that is exactly what they did not like… Here it must be remembered that all serving women do it as a side job, working a paid job in everyday life, and yet giving their heart to the ministry. That is VERY hard. Because ministry in the church is not all of it; one has to develop, read a great deal, study, educate oneself, and women have children.
You have already ended your course of ministry in the congregation. Why? Was it your own choice? And, having for many years carried out the duties of a pastor, thus standing in for a pastor in the congregation, will you also receive appropriate guarantees from your church, such as those given to pastors emeritus?
Come now! No, I have had and will have NO guarantees whatsoever. I served of my own free will, not for the sake of pay; most often my “pay” was 10 euros per service. I consider that I serve the love of Christ, not the church as an institution. I am very much learning to distinguish the Church as the body of Christ from the church as an institution, as one distinguishes the sin from the sinner. There are things in this institution that I do not like, and will not like, that will NEVER be acceptable, and so I decided to leave on my own, before being asked! (oh, how hard it is for me to hold my tongue!)
What are your thoughts on the attitude toward women in the congregation? Have we achieved equality, or is there still a long road to travel?
Equality? It is still far off. If male pastors can listen open-mouthed to Dr. Evanson’s lecture that the most a woman MAY allow herself is to read a man-written sermon from the pulpit, and everyone nods their heads in agreement, and NO ONE (I had thought better of them) raises their voice to challenge Dr. Evanson even gently, that a woman not only MAY NOT consecrate Communion, but may not even distribute it… Then I have nothing to say. Had I not promised God to serve until my 60th year, I would have left that very day! And one should not think here that I am somehow terribly offended; it is simply that if you get on someone’s nerves to THAT degree, then the only right thing is to leave. I think that in this spot the comments will hold many voices of agreement.
I do not deny here that in the LELB there are also men who support the ordination of women, but such men are a minority. It is possible that some of the men here feel some kind of threat; they may also have unconscious childhood traumas with/from women.
I think that in Latvia this will remain a problem for a long time yet, and ordination as a deaconess will further intensify this dissonance, because there is an enormous difference between what is understood by the word deaconess outside Latvia and what is understood by it in Latvia.
Latvia was recently swept by the news that a woman had been elected the new archbishop of the LELBāL. In the Lutheran World Federation, which includes the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Latvia, 80% of the member churches ordain women as pastors. What, in your view, is the loss to the LELB from the fact that women’s ordination has been suspended since the 1990s?
If I recall correctly, one of the American pastors said that Vanags ought to be awarded a medal for not ordaining women, because all the clever, wise, and developed women go off to Europe and America. We grow poorer, but what can you do – it must be the way it has to be… It is never SO bad that it could not be even worse.
About Archbishop Lauma Zušēvica I am simply glad, and I sincerely wish her the wisdom and strength of Solomon, as well as feminine sagacity and a strong backbone. May she succeed!
At present, amendments to the constitution are being discussed in the LELB. Because of a shortage of pastors, amendments are envisaged to Article 134 that would, in exceptional cases, allow the ordination of candidates with lower general and theological education but sufficient experience. Yet at the same time an amendment to Article 133 is being proposed, which suggests enshrining in the LELB constitution the principle that ordination may be requested by any male person who conforms to the order of the LELB, thereby denying women, at the very level of the constitution, even the chance to request the opportunity to become pastors. It is known that in the Latvian Lutheran Church there is more than one theologically educated woman, not to mention general education, who would be ready for ordination and to serve in congregations. Do these amendments to the articles of the constitution not, in their way, point to the fact that the Lutheran Church, by rejecting women’s ordination, has not become stronger but, on the contrary, weaker?
But of course, that is not even up for discussion! Here I will again open my wide mouth and keep quiet! A pastor who has been awarded the Order of the Three Stars does not even have the right to vote at the Synod! WELL, what more is there to say!
I would dearly like every potential pastor first (before receiving the pastor’s cross) to work for three or four years in some palliative-care institution, with orphans, in a home for the disabled or the elderly, with dying children or cancer patients, and ONLY then to be able to receive the pastor’s cross, which would then be honorably earned; but Article 134 I do not even wish to comment on…
Sometimes, looking at the one ministering before the church, I have had to conclude that, however gifted and kind-hearted the person may be, there is something in his or her bearing, manner of speaking, or conduct that hinders me from taking in what the minister wishes to say. While serving as an evangelist, did you feel that your theatrical training gave you the advantage of speaking convincingly before people and delivering the Gospel message in a palatable way?
Yes, of course, and writing also comes in handy. But, of course, there are people whose nerves are grated by my harsh sermons (there is no arguing about taste). I can only say that I have done, with all my heart, the very best I was capable of at the moment.
Do you also feel the title of Anna Brigadere’s famous trilogy “God. Nature. Work.” (“Dievs. Daba. Darbs.”) as your own calling? Tell us your associations.
I can only agree. Yes, God must be in God’s (first, highest) place. If He is not in first place, who then will be able to protect us? Many say – “my child comes first”! But a child does not determine the movement of the world. A child can be in second place, but in first place there MUST be God (not the church as an institution; please do not confuse these concepts)! God gave us this earth so that we would protect and cherish it, but what are we doing? (one wants to scream) and work – the one thing that will not betray. I cannot tell each person what I feel, what I think, and so I write. “Mana Dienas Grāmata” (“My Book of Days”) is 366 conversations of God (and more) with the Human Being (and more). It is precisely there that these three wise words are contained (she smiles).
In addition to your many talents and works, you are also a mother and a grandmother. Tell us a little about your family.
That is long. I have 5 children (that is how I see it): 3 biological and … well, children! And 5 grandchildren! And in general – there are no OTHER PEOPLE’S children, there are children! (a pity it is not so for everyone).
I am a widow.
It is interesting that the church as an institution ought to care especially for widows and orphans (so I understand from the Scriptures), which I have not really observed.
How do you spend your free time? Do you have any?
In my free time I exchange one kind of work for another, and I never tire of it! (a smile)
I try to live a full and fulfilled life.
Is there some corner of the earth to which you have always wished to travel?
The Native American reservation! (there is the same hopelessness there as in our own countryside) To tell them that they too can be free, and in just as improbable a way as the Latvians. Our freedom is a gift of God, and nothing else! And again – how we fail to value it… And – I love MY land very much! But I would like to see the Native Americans free!!!
Thank you for the time you have devoted to this interview! We at sieviesuordinacija.lv wish you blessed, creative, and inspiring years ahead! We congratulate you on Women’s Day! Perhaps there is something you would like to wish our readers?
In closing, a little tale from “My Book of Days,” 21 November:
Once a great storm arose, and the Human Being grew anxious for those at sea. He began to call upon God to calm the storm. But God said: “Take a candle and climb to the top of the mountain, that it may show light to those at sea and in the storm.” “But the candle will go out, and the mountaintop is so far!” cried the Human Being. “If you truly want to save them, you will go!” said the Voice encouragingly. “But the candle’s flame is so weak,” drawled the Human Being. “Those are excuses. Sometimes a candle can be brighter than a ray of the sun. Rise up and go! If you see a problem – solve it, do not ask Me to solve it. I will be beside you in the most hopeless situations, but only if you rise up and act yourself. I will fulfill the most unfulfillable wishes, if only you yourself rise up to fulfill them. I will give strength than which there is none greater in the world, on one condition – go and do!”
That is what I wish for everyone too!
Photo from Dace Priede’s personal archive.
Dace Priede was interviewed by Aļesja Lavrinoviča (sieviesuordinacija.lv)
The capital letters and ellipses in the text of the interview are in accordance with Dace Priede’s wishes.